Parisien to Roy: Take the fifth; But says phone call went no further

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Trevor Pritchard

Local News - A victims' rights advocate on trial for obstructing justice at the Cornwall Public Inquiry testified Wednesday that he encouraged abuse victim Albert Roy to "take the fifth" but not to lie or have memory lapses.

Steve Parisien, one of the first crusaders for bringing the inquiry to Cornwall, took the stand in his own defence on the second and final day of testimony at his criminal trial.

The obstruction of justice charge stems from allegations Roy, 46, made at the inquiry last December. He had claimed that Parisien phoned him before his testimony wrapped up and said he could have "memory lapses" if lawyers asked him questions he didn't want to answer.

Roy repeated those allegations again on Tuesday, the first day of Parisien's trial. He said Parisien had called the inquiry a "witch hunt" for former city cop Perry Dunlop during that call, and Roy swore at the mention of Dunlop's name.

Dunlop is the city police officer who is often credited with bringing to light decades of alleged sexual abuse in the Cornwall area.

Parisien denied Roy's charges, painting a very different picture of their near-midnight phone call on Dec. 4, 2006.

Parisien told the court he and Roy had exchanged phone numbers four months earlier after meeting for the first time at Survivors of Sexual Abuse (SOSA), a local support group.

The night of the call, Parisien - an abuse victim himself - said he had been lying in bed and trying to pray when he began thinking about Roy. After a search for Roy's number proved fruitless, he called a tenant who knew Roy's wife, Vicky.

The tenant called back shortly thereafter and gave Parisien the number, saying the Roys were expecting his call, Parisien testified. During their conversation, Parisien said Roy indicated the lawyers at the inquiry had asked him to talk about matters that were "private and personal" and which he felt had nothing to do with the inquiry's mandate.

At one point, Parisien said he heard Vicky Roy in the background reminding her husband he was still under oath and couldn't talk about his testimony.

The case in quotes

"He said, 'If you don't want to answer the questions, you could have memory lapses. Nobody's going to know the difference.'"

- Albert Roy, during Tuesday's testimony.

"Either he's made it up or he's picked stuff up from somebody else, because it sure as heck didn't come from me."

- Steve Parisien, testifying Wednes-day.

"A lot of people who watch American TV come to court and say, 'Can I plead the fifth?' And they have no idea what that means."

 

- Parisien's lawyer, Bill Wade, in his closing submissions.

"Even just offering, 'You could plead the fifth,' is crossing the line."

 

- Crown prosecutor Jay Spare in his closing submissions.

"He says (to me), 'I'm not supposed to talk about anything like this,'" said Parisien. "I said, 'Whoa, Albert, that was not the point of me calling.'"

Parisien said he gave Roy the phone number for The Men's Group, an Ottawa-based support program for male sexual abuse survivors, and told him he should contact his lawyer if he had concerns about his testimony.

Responding to a question from Bill Wade, his defence lawyer, Parisien vowed he never once uttered the phrase "memory lapse" or encouraged Roy to lie on the stand.

He said it was Roy who brought up Dunlop, not himself.

In cross-examination by Crown prosecutor Jay Spare, Parisien said Roy didn't reveal to him the line of questioning which made him so upset - but he was firm that it had nothing to do with Dunlop's involvement.

"The only indication that Albert gave me in regards to that topic was it was personal and private and it did not pertain to the inquiry," Parisien told Spare.

"So Albert didn't say to you, 'They want me to answer questions about Perry Dunlop?'" asked Spare.

"No," replied Parisien.

He did say he told Roy if he didn't want to answer questions, he could "take the fifth" - a reference to the U.S. Constitution's Fifth Amendment, which gives American citizens the right to avoid answering a question if it would incriminate them.

The meaning of that phrase - whether Parisien was encouraging Roy to seek further legal counsel or trying to obstruct justice - became a key point in the two lawyers' closing submissions.

american tv

"A lot of people who watch American TV come to court and say, 'Can I plead the fifth?' And they have no idea what that means," Wade told Judge James Fontana.

Wade also questioned Roy's ability to remember conversations he allegedly had about his inquiry testimony with three of Parisien's long-time acquaintances.

He suggested Roy, who has a history of mental health issues, might also have difficulty remembering parts of his conversation with Parisien, and that he colluded with his wife to get their stories straight.

In his closing remarks, Spare called Parisien's testimony "contradictory" and "evasive."

He found it odd Parisien only remembered under cross-examination that Roy was slurring his words during their phone call, and said Parisien had changed his testimony over the trial about how Dunlop's name came up in the conversation.

Spare said Parisien was "crossing the line" when he told Roy he could take the fifth.

He argued Parisien had a motive for encouraging Roy to lie about Dunlop's involvement: the inquiry had already moved too far afield from its stated mandate of examining the institutional response to historical sexual abuse claims in the area.

"In his mind, it is already undermined. He's got to work to bring it back on line," said Spare.

Parisien is scheduled to return to court on Sep. 21, when Fontana is expected to deliver his verdict.